DIVIDED BY RACE

A Special Report • Differences impede honest discussion • Frank talk across the racial divide • Guidelines for discussing race in Cincinnati • 'African-American': pride to some, division to others • Akron program brings groups face-to-face • Hard issues are political - and personal

        Two days after Timothy Thomas was killed, 19 people from throughout the community came to The Cincinnati Enquirer to discuss race relations and how we talk with each other.

        The gathering was the second focus group to participate in the Enquirer's continuing series, “Divided by Race.” Some of the Tristate's most influential business, civic and religious leaders gathered in February to discuss how to improve race relations.

        The second group came from Westwood and Anderson Township, St. Bernard and Over-the-Rhine. They are lawyers, maintenance workers, teachers, preachers and retirees. They are black and white, male and female, young and old. They are just like you, our readers. Many of them wrote or e-mailed us with comments after the first group met.

        The group agreed, even before violence marred the city and in interviews later, that effective communication is pivotal to improving race relations.

        This is what they have to say. Comments have been edited for space and clarity.

        Why is it so hard to talk about race?

        Janie Marie Kennedy: Until both races stop blaming each other for the sins of their ancestors, we will never be able to talk about race without people getting upset. We can't continue to blame all white people for what happened to us during slavery. No, we can never forget about being enslaved, but we are not slaves now.

        Blacks need to stop dwelling on the past. No white person can control us unless we let them. And until white people give us a little more respect, we won't be able to talk about race. In order to get respect we have to respect ourselves first. And those people who were out rioting were not respecting themselves.

        Trey Daly: People are afraid of hurting each other's feelings. That's in a group where you can assume there's mutual respect. In other settings where there's not mutual respect, people just aren't interested in talking about it.

        Part of what we've seen this past week is that there are times when we're filled with so much anger and hurt that it makes it difficult to hear the other person's point of view or communicate your own concerns in a way that isn't perceived as hostile or threatening.

        Barbara Thornton: It's a matter of avoidance on white people's part. They think if you avoid it, it will go away. How do you make people talk? I don't know. It's the people who want to make an effort, who want to reach across lines, who aren't the ones throwing soda cans through storefront windows.

        Grace Beischel: Some radicals make it difficult for people to say anything for fear of being accused of being racist. There are a lot of people who only know the stereotypes.

FOCUS GROUP

Black males:     The Rev. Steven K. Wheeler, 44, West End, lifelong resident, pastor and teacher     Ronald Lovett, 45, Westwood, lifelong resident, real estate management     Tim LaCour, 46, Evanston, purchasing manager     Edgar Pillow, College Hill, retired IRS     Antonio Lewis, 30, Winton Place/Terrace, lifelong resident, network tech     Darryl Erkins, 33, Colerain Township, compliance analyst Black females:     Deborah A. Lewis, 47, Roselawn, lifelong resident, married, two grown kids     JoAnn Davis, 61, Mt. Auburn, lifelong resident, instructor (CPS?)     Jennifer Lewis-Thornton, 27, Avondale, lifelong resident, 9th grade world history teacher     Janie Marie Kennedy, 21, Cumminsville, lifelong resident, clerical worker     Yvonne L. West, 54, West Chester, business owner White males:     Hugh F. "Trey" Daly, 38, Paddock Hills, lawyer     Richard Hand, 74, Delhi, retired     David E. Gallaher, 58, Over-the-Rhine, customer service, former stockbroker     David F. Utterback, 49, Milford/Eastgate, research manager White females:     Grace Beischel, 75, Montfort Heights, widow/retired     Teresa Meyer, 42, St. Bernard, purchasing agent     Barbara Thornton, 39, Anderson Township, lifelong resident, territory manager for a food broker     Sharon Hand, Delhi, math teacher

        Tim LaCour: There's fear and distrust because you're dealing with a culture that's not like you.

        David Utterback: Most people live lives that make them comfortable. People are unlikely to address issues that cause them to have discomfort. It's my observation that if a person is comfortable, they're not going to be motivated to do anything that decreases their level of comfort.

        JoAnn Davis: I think maybe (whites) feel threatened in talking about race. I work at a school with a very nice white person, but I don't bring up any real in-depth issues. Her life is different. We live in different worlds.

        Has the recent unrest helped or hindered talk?

        David Gallaher: It'll make it easier to discuss race. It's the hot topic now. It's unfortunate that we will be discussing race more because of violence. It's going to be a lot like talking about the weather after we've had a tornado. It's not going to prevent a tornado.

        Rev. Steven Wheeler: For white Americans who are honest about there being a problem, (the violence) will be a focal point of discussion to bring about some healing. On the other side of coin, you have some whites who say, “It's not our problem, so therefore I don't understand why they reacted like they did. They are nothing but a bunch of looters, rioters and unorganized individuals.” For that group it will create more mistrust and fear.

        Ronald Lovett: The rioting is only going to make it harder for white folks to talk to blacks, because a lot of (whites) view it for just what it really was — it was a screw-up. Black people did not do the correct thing or handle it in the proper manner. It was a stupid move, tearing up their own neighborhood. That kind of behavior only makes them white folks want to call us n-----s even more.

        Edgar Pillow: You have to talk about (race relations). It's like a cancer. If you don't deal with it, it grows. That's what has happened here. Year after year, the doctor said there was cancer. But nobody listened to the doctor.

        JoAnn Davis: Some people don't want to change. For some people, it will be like business as usual because we live in two separate worlds.

        Is there discrimination in the workplace?

        Deborah Lewis: My daughter sent a resume in. This one company told her she had all the job experience they wanted, that she was the person for the job. They told her how much she's going to be earning, her hours. But when she shows up on her first day of work, the woman looks at her. You could see the woman's face drop because (my daughter) was not what she expected. The woman told her to go home at 11 a.m. because it wasn't working out. The woman thought she was the wrong color.

        On a piece of paper, there's a name and Social Security number, but you can't see a face. To me, if you qualify to do the job, it shouldn't matter what your race is.

        Richard Hand: I'm shocked to hear there's still prejudice in the workplace. My impression is that it's a level playing field now. ... My frustration is understanding their situation.

        Are you prejudiced?

        Sharon Hand: I think both blacks and whites are very prejudiced. Both sides have already made up their minds about what the other side is all about. I'm sure I have prejudice. Not because the skin's black, but part of it's fear. I'm uncomfortable with people who act differently.

        Dave Utterback: I think everybody has prejudice. But there's a big difference between prejudice and racism. Prejudice is something we can try to overcome. Racism is the intent to do someone harm or to keep them at a certain level. There are people in this community who would like very much to keep it divided, and do very little to address the issue.

        Barbara Thornton: I want to recognize if I have a prejudice. Why did I clutch my purse (when an African-American crossed her path)? Did I clutch it because of skin color or hip-hop dress? Was it prejudice or safety?

        Will race relations ever improve?

        Edgar Pillow: I don't think racism will ever be solved. I think what black people have to do is what we've always done: take care of our own. Learn and appreciate our culture. Recognize that we came from great people, strong people and that America's wealth wouldn't be here if it wasn't for us.

        Sharon Hand: People aren't appreciating the progress enough. There should be more celebration than frustration. It may not be enough (progress), but I've seen tremendous strides (in race relations).

        David Gallaher: We will never come together. There are forces that draw us apart, just like there are forces that draw us together. We're not going to naturally address the issue. I'm not going to walk over to my neighbor and say, “Hey, let's talk about race.”

        The Rev. Steven Wheeler: I don't think whites are interested in doing anything about race. If people were serious about making an effort on good race relations, just like building hospitals, fixing up the riverfront, sending a man to the moon, people would do it.

        How do stereotypes impede communication?

        Antonio Lewis: A lot of white people buy into the media hype that black men are dangerous no matter what, and they are out to get you. I've had white women pass me on the street clutching their purse, sometimes they even cross the street. They look at you as if you're going to rob them or attack them. They're so busy watching me, they don't see that white man who is about to rob them or knock them in the head.

        It doesn't matter if you are in a suit or in jeans sagging down to your knees. They see us as some type of animal out to get them. Truth is, most of the time we aren't even thinking about them. I've got a family and a job to worry about that's usually on my mind.

        The same thing happens when you get on an elevator full of white people. The whole elevator gets quiet when just one black man gets on. You can feel the tension. They act like they're scared of me, and they got me outnumbered.

        Dave Utterback: I don't want to be stereotyped or pigeonholed, just like anybody else. (It seems) blacks think all whites think alike.

        Tim LaCour: We've been lumped into a culture that (blacks only know) the NBA or NFL, hip-hop or rhythm and blues. They're shocked if you have diction or if you go to the opera. They're shocked if you know more of Andrew Lloyd Webber's lyrics than they do. I like listening to Beethoven; I like classical guitar.

        Teresa Meyer: There's a stereotype of whites that we don't care about slavery, that we don't think it's a terrible thing. Everyone I know thinks it's a horrible thing. We shouldn't forget it, but whites are exhausted. We need to put it in perspective. It happened how many years ago?

        Janie Marie Kennedy: White people are scared of us. Nobody in this room should ever be afraid of me.

        What can be done to improve relations?

        Jennifer Lewis-Thornton: There is not enough teaching of any minority history in schools. If we were able to get more multicultural education into the school system, kids would be more open for discussions on race. If you are open to these types of discussions as a child, you are less likely to have a problem confronting them as an adult.

        What do you wish white people would stop saying?

        Rev. Wheeler: “When I see you, I don't see your skin color.” When you tell me you don't see my skin color, you're telling me you don't see my heritage, my history, my mother, my father.

        Jennifer Lewis-Thornton: “You're not like them.” And I'm like, “Who is them? And what are them like?” Just because I'm not “ghetto,” (whites) feel that I can have a discussion with them about George W. Bush.

        Yvonne West: “You people.” I wish whites would stop thinking of us as a monolithic people and that we all think the same, because there are a lot of differing views in the African-American community.

        What do you wish black people would stop saying?

        Barbara Thornton: The n-word. I've gotten desensitized to some cursing, but this is one thing I cannot ever stand to hear.

        Trey Daley: MF this, MF that. And the way I hear black men talk about women in general. It feels like there's a lot of violence in cultural expression.

        Richard Hand: Stop all the extreme outspokenness, the radical element ... all this yelling.

        What do white people do that bothers you?

        Deborah Lewis: When another black person would come in (where I used to work), whites would automatically assume that I knew them.

        Janie Marie Kennedy: They need to quit always expecting us to do something wrong. When we walk in their stores, just because we may be dressed like we don't have a lot of money, don't assume we don't have the money.

        Darryl Erkins: Just the assumption that blacks don't know how to handle authority bothers me. They think that we don't know how to raise our black males or there is a family problem and that is why there is unrest, as opposed to acknowledging that there is a disparity in treatment of blacks and whites by police. They assume everyone in the African-American community disrespects police officers. That is unfair.

        JoAnn Davis: Whites don't value what you know. They don't think you know anything.

        What do black people do that bothers you?

        Sharon Hand: What really bothers me more than anything is they tend to be very loud in groups - though that is probably not true of everybody. But I think that bothers a lot of middle-class to upper-class white people. Whether it's in a restaurant or wherever, rowdiness in general bothers me.
   

Differences impede honest discussion
Frank talk across the racial divide
Guidelines for discussing race in Cincinnati
Hard issues are political - and personal
'African-American': pride to some, division to others
Akron program brings groups face-to-face